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Out of Hand (continued)

Well, yes but the "movement" started long before that. We go back to the 1800's. There was a movement of resistance going on then and throughout the turn of the century. There have been many Indian activists, men and women, who we never hear about. AIM was initially started by Clyde Bellecourt, Dennis Banks, George Mitchell, and others to combat police brutality in the cities... to deal with the discrimination, and all that goes along with poverty, that the urban Indians were facing in Minneapolis. There were very successful in stopping the police brutality. Then, they started branching out to different areas, dealing with different issues. So, the word spread as Dennis and others traveled and spoke around the country... that there was an organization fighting for Indian rights.

Throughout the 50's and 60's however, there were the fishing struggles back in the Northwest... we were fighting for our treaty rights. That's when I first got involved. The "movement' includes a broad sector of people. The American Indian Movement, AIM, just incorporated the name.

Well, I lived both on and off the reservation during the 50's and 60's so I personally didn't feel any dislike or animosity. I returned quite often. It was during the 60's and 70's, however, that a relationship developed because a lot of the Indians were just plain lost. They had lost everything. Still, the Indian blood in them was too strong. They wanted to find their identity, they wanted to know who they were, where they came from. They wanted to know something about their culture and religion.

According to the treaties, made between two sovereign nations, the United States and the Indian Nations in the Northwest, the Indians would have a right to fish in their traditional hunting grounds... as long as the grass grows and the waters flow. And at that time, Indians were not allowed to fish at all. So they were fighting for and exercising their treaty rights. I already belonged to an organization. I was one of the founders.

The United Indians of All Tribes. We demonstrated and took over Fort Lawton in Seattle, Washington. They wanted to build a park there and sell the government "surplus" land to the city for a dollar. We wanted to build a cultural center, a university program.

Yes, it does, and it is quite successful. There is a cultural center there called Daybreak Star Park, a multi-million dollar structure. Bernie White Bear has been the Director of it since the takeover. We left it in Bernie's hands since he was the architect of the organization.

I ended up in Denver, Colorado. That was where I first heard of the American Indian Movement, from Clyde Bellecourt. That was where I joined.

Well, yes, but my energy and thoughts were and are really directed towards building economics on the reservation. Trying to accomplish what we started out trying to do 25 years ago... building economics on the reservation. We knew then that in order to have control over our reservations that we had to have control over the economics of them. We knew we had... have and we can't continue living on welfare and handouts. We can't trust the government to abide by the treaties. We need to put our people to work.

It was during this time, when Dennis and the others were reaching out to people, that they starting meeting medicine men, Traditionals, full-bloods. We remembered then, from our own childhood experiences on reservations, that they were the most discriminated against. We started approaching them for direction and guidance. That's how members of the American Indian Movement realized that they had to follow the traditional spiritual path of the old warriors.

Yes, but I had participated in Indian ceremonies all my life. I was 15 years old when I went to my first Sundance. My Grandmother was very proud of her traditional beliefs even though she was also a die-hard Catholic. She introduced me to our religious traditions and I really enjoyed it. Of course, in those days I was being pulled in a lot of directions... I was being told that Indians were nothing but heathens.. that our religious traditions, ceremonies, were nothing but hocus-pocus. Being told that our traditions were old and that we should follow the new Christian religion. Of course, I never went for that... Thank God! The Sundance is one of our most important ceremonies. You pray for everything... your Nation, you pray for your people, someone who is sick... There are a lot of different reasons for praying.

Well, it certainly was when I came in. The environment was one of our biggest concerns. We wanted to stop the exploitation of our natural resources and our lands. This was on of the main issues we fought for and against... to try and stop the destruction. Uranium mining, other minerals, coal... millions of acres of land were being destroyed and the people's health was being affected by the results of open-pit strip mining. We were pretty successful in preventing some of the destruction, but the devastation of Mother Earth on the reservations is still a problem today. In particular regarding the storage of hazardous waste. While the environment is still a major concern, basic needs concerning nutrition, health care, and education are also a priority. Basic needs that take precedence.

Henry Crow Dog, Frank Fools Crow. What they taught us were the beliefs of the traditional and the old time warriors: that the warriors were not just out there fighting, but that they were religious. And to be a good warrior you had to be kind, gentle and generous. A warrior thought about his people.

With your Executive Clemency pending and the presidential elections just around the corner, it is critical that your supporters actively campaign for your release. Recently an article was published in Outside magazine which twisted the facts and misrepresnted your case and may have had some impact on your chance for freedom. Could you comment on this?

Well, of course, an article like that is very damaging. It is very dispiriting to myself, to my own spirits. You know... it gets you a little down. But knowing the network of supporters that are working with me, I think we will be able to turn it around. Which we have already started to do. There was a response written by Peter Matthiessen in the October issue, and it's a great article. So hopefully, this will turn people around. I did receive letters from people stating that they don't always believe what they read, so I don't believe it influenced or reached as many people as you might expect it it to have. Hopefully Peter's response will convince people to join the clemency campaign that we have going on right now. That is what is really needed, badly. We need people to continue writing letters and making phone calls and just putting on as much pressure, political pressure as we can right now. It is critical during this election time.

Well, first of all Dino Butler says that Mr. X doesn't exist, yet Dino Butler also says, which is true, that I am not guilty. He knows that I did not kill the FBI agents. My other co-defendent, Bob Robideau, says the same thing. Well, OK. Then who killed the agents? It is quite obvious that I didn't. So there has to be a Mr. X, or whatever you want to call him. You want to call him Mr. Y? You want to call him Mr. Z? Well, then go right ahead. But a Mr. X does exist.

I'm certain it does. I'm sure it does. We see all of the power given to the FBI, and all they have to do is what they have done in the past, change the name. Change the name of the program and it remains in effect.

No, I don't believe that. There are too many people out of work, people who have families, children, brothers, sisters, grandparents and great-grandparents, who were abused by this government and who still believe very strongly in their Indian blood. Yes, I would imagine that there are still a few out there who are informants, who would sell a piece of information for a few bucks. But, as for it being an overwhelming problem, preventing us from organizing, I don't believe that. I really don't, we are strong.

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Originally appeared in Plazm #11. Interview by Jane Kinney. Design by Niko Courtelis.